Reaction: Charles Mingus - The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

The History and Popular Music of the ’60s class learned about Charles Mingus’ classic experimental jazz album, The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady (1963). Here are their reactions.

Sam Swartley:

In my response to The Black Saint and The Sinner Lady I will take a look at each track individually, going in-depth on specific moments, feelings and emotions.

Going into listening to this record I only had listened to Charles Mingus’s Mingus Ah Um which is very different. In fact, this album was one of the most surprising jazz albums I have ever heard and definitely took some getting used to. Pushing through the beginning hard listening really paid off. I listened to the recorded at least 10 or so times, and this is the “journey” I concluded with that made sense to me:

Track A – Solo Dancer

The record starts off with this set up of droning angst, on top of that an emotional and “lonely” saxophone melody. As an “attempt to express his feelings about separation from and among the discordant people of the world.” This quote really captures track A, and shows how the melodies and composition explain what Mingus is dealing with in his life at the time, and introducing ideas that will be “explored” later within the record. When things start to pick and the energy level gets higher, you feel this discomfort growing and get bigger, as the band starts to come together, while a lower sax line takes over (tenor I am guessing). This mood switch makes everything feel a little more hectic, but that’s what Mingus was trying to show, this idea of how quick and uncomfortable life can be. When the drums chill out and the sax’s trade melody lines, you return to this feeling of loneliness and sorrow, and feel the low end drown build back up. For the first time you prolly get as close as you will to “standard” jazz in the album, when the alto sax takes a solo. In my opinion this solo isn’t like any sax solo I have heard. The saxophonist is really pushing these sounds out of the instrument that are unheard of. And then as we reach the “peak” of this tune, the other horns catch you off guard with the dirtiest backing line you will ever hear in jazz. Everything is building up and pushing, everything slowly yet suddenly coming to an end to a despondent end, leaving lots of confusion and room to learn.

Track B- Duet Solo Dancers

This track starts a little more easy, with classically-inspired piano solo, in my opinion it’s almost romantic. “It’s the beginning credits rolling of a romance film,” with sudden unexpected drops changing the mood, perfectly in unison showing the skill of the band. Then going back to the grimy emotions that Mingus is feeling in his life, clearly hearing the call and response of the “duet” as said in the title. These intertwining melodies with complicated different rhythms again show this confusing and miss direction Mingus wants to express. Sudden break and repeat of change in rhythm gives a sense of the painful ticking clock of time and life. Everything builds up, until you hear this conversation between a trumpet (?) and the drums. This part of the tune was really interesting to me, the trumpet pittered out, almost like it was dying. Then the satisfasction of the beginning romantic melody coming back, this time with a new brass melody on top. In my opinion, the second time you hear this melody it’s a little more free and relaxed, implying that you’ve been here before. Ending with this low note that was the “call” of the call response, except at the end there is just a call and no response. “The music then changes into a mood of what I would call mounting restless agitation and anguish as if there is tremendous conflict between love and hate.”

Track C – Group Dancers

Starting with another piano solo, except this time, it has this feeling of build up and introduces the rest of the song perfectly, ending with a very jazzy distant chord. This feeling of being on the edge starts to arise as other instruments come in and out again, showing a conversation between all the instruments. Then before you know it you’re with Mingus on the run with the flute lead melody. Then quickly “back to crying in the corner” with solo piano. Then right back up, you’re really on the run, this flute line just gives you this racing feeling. This racing feeling is the exhilaration Mingus feels in his life. I would agree with this feeling of “racing.” It can be scary or exciting. I think Mingus shows it well. And right before you think the song is really going to take off, just before three minutes you hear this mix of high and low, and then the entire record takes a new direction. Jay Berliner’s tone of the nylon string guitar changed the mood and the feel instantly, it was very unexpected to hear a classical guitar, and I think Mingus knew that and that’s why he chose to make the guitar coming in such a big “statement.” The tonality of the guitar and alto sax really stood out to me, and for the first time I actually felt happy and Mingus seemed to be feeling all right. But then it seemed everyone just started banging on their instruments, going into the insanity and intertwining melodies that seemed to highlight a brighter louder confusion. Then going back to the vibe of the beginning of the tune, which again gives this feeling of returning home and hope. As the tune builds up again, you can hear each instrument “yelling” at each other, pushing and pushing the tune dramatically. Then everything goes quiet, and we hear the alto sax go on a rant of emotions, I feel that the saxophone closing line seems unfinished, knowing that “the pain and tears” are still there and will still be there. “The theme suggested by the title is the peace and happiness of the free person contrasted with the pain and tears of the black man.”

Mode D – Trio and Group Dancers/Mode E – Single Solos and Group Dance/Mode F – Group and Solo Dance

The beginning of this tune is very similar to track C, with this soulful, sad piano. Except this time we are jumping right into it with a little call response. Right before the entire band comes in Mingus hits us with four bars of raw double bass. Probably the most bluesy, soulful, emotional bass line I have ever heard in my life, and the only time Mingus really takes a solo. Then when the rest of the band comes in we have the same vibe as on Track A, except this time I feel it’s a little more relaxed and comfortable, still rough around the edges but in a way that feels more put together. In my opinion showing what Mingus has accomplished (or halfway accomplished) by creating this album. Then we take a break with this soft and tender Spanish guitar (love the use of octaves), then transition to have the rest of the band come in. This really shows the idea of moving forward as we quickly move in a more hectic direction. The way the record is panned is really interesting, and really stood out to me around 3:30min, the high end is mostly on the right side, while the lower end is droning on the left side, with the drums going crazy in the middle. Rolling into this abrupt stop to piano solo.

This piano solo is almost exactly like the last two, going back to the racing flute melody, it feels like getting us (the audience/listener) ready to go somewhere new. Also with Mingus yelling, “GODDAMMIT,” makes it feel weirdly more human, which I like. Another piano solo seems more prominent and really gives room for Mingus to express his sorrow, for the first time he really digs into the low end grit of the piano. Revisiting a romantic style melody, hinting at ideas from track B. The more I listen to this final track the more melodies and ideas show up from the first “side” of this record.

The sound that really makes these instruments show this painful sadness is how they have this tone of “wah wah,” it’s just so emotional as if the instruments are crying. A call and response with the guitar and the entire band gets us back in the flow of things while alto sax players hit us with soulful melodies that seem to highlight this idea of “love vs hate.” Once again, I think there is a quiet vibraphone that adds a shimmery texture to the entire sound/vibe. As the sax gets higher and higher the rest of the band comes in, and all the sounds come together, seemingly endlessly building this feeling of battle and discomfort against society and Mingus own thoughts. Resolving to this beautiful romantic melody that definitely became (overtime) more hopeful as the record goes on. As the tempo speeds up you feel as if you are getting closer to a revolution, your heart starts racing. Again resolving to the hopeful romantic melody, this time with a screeching brass section yelling to the world “I FEEL ALONE.” A build up in tempo again… this time even more hectic than anytime before, then back to the romantic melody, this time is very noticeably different. It’s more hype, greater energy, it’s sleazy and dirty, but still the same feeling of hope and romance. The trombone is really telling a story now, you can feel yourself relate to everything charles is feeling, everything in your life that’s making you feel like crap. As things again get crazier, you get lost in this sound but this time it feels more natural.

Now we have truly returned home, for real, track A. This time we understand. This droning agnst isn’t the same anymore, it seems okay and isn’t (as) confusing, it seems friendly. Things quickly get crazy, but we expected that, as the horns build a massive discomforting chord, everything goes away. Ending with a sax line, this time this sax line resolves, implying that you and Mingus just went on a journey through his mind, and that you both have an understanding of what he was going through and the discomfort and confusion he was feeling, and the sadness of what it really meant to be a black man in the 1960s. This record answered that for him. He got it out of his system. He fully expressed himself within the artform of Jazz, if that’s what you want to call it.

This album definitely changed how I view listening to music. It took me on a rollercoaster of emotions that weren’t always pleasing to my ears, but I think I learned to accept that and enjoy it. This up and down of hectic melodies to soothing melodies was kind of hard on my brain. I have started listening to a lot of fusion, like later Miles Davis, some of Jerry Garcia, and Mahavishnu Orchestra. I think that this type of music is all about how the music makes you feel, and sometimes it takes a few listens to get and understand it, which is fascinating to me. Really cool record!

Pritam Khalsa:

The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady is the type of music you would listen to at night. The music is dark and does not all quite fit together. It is the type of music that you want to just be able to listen to, however, it does not always make sense. All of the collage pieces are slightly different colors. All of the bits of dark paper overlap which is how I see the music in my mind. There are all of these different parts trying to work together and then there are little bits of blue and red music that pop out throughout the collage.

Alex Skiles:

“Time, perfect or syncopated time, is when a faucet dribbles from a leaky washer. I’m more than sure an adolescent memory can remember how long the intervals were between each collision of our short-lived drip and its crash into an untidy sink’s overfilled coffee cup with murky grime of old cream still clinging to the edges or a tidy rust stained enamel sink that the owner of such has given up on the idea that that maintenance man is ever going to change the rhythm beat of his dripping faucet by just doing his job and changing that rotten old rubber washer before time runs out of time.”

This passage from Mingus’ writing stuck with me, and I envisioned this timekeeping dripping faucet throughout my listenings to the album. The faucet in our downstairs bathroom has been dripping for as long as I can remember no matter how tightly you try to turn the knob, and this passage reminded me of watching that faucet from the toilet when I was little.

Gibson McCoy:

Track A – Solo Dancer

The beginning of this song gives each instrument an introduction while the melody is playing in the background. Most of this song is really pleasant. None of the instruments are trying to overpower each other and they balance nicely together creating smooth jazz. It is not until 4:05 minutes in that there is a sound that does not mix and stands out. The track resumes with a nice balance but not the same as the beginning there is a new sound. The part of this song that makes it not as enjoyable as the rest is the whine of the trombone? (I have no clue what instrument it is)

Track B- Duet Solo Dancers

Mingus starts off the track nice and soft with a piano section that fades into drums and horn instruments. Through the first-minute instruments are starting to build creating a louder portion. So far, the instruments in both tracks have a really sad-sounding tone that seems to be a commonality between the tracks. For the majority of this song, the instruments blend nicely and are not too painful to listen to but there are some parts that do not fit my taste in music. In some parts of this track, the horn sticks out too much and messes with the flow of the other instruments giving it a messy sound. This is not the case for the majority of the song but it is something that makes it harder to listen to.

Track C – Group Dancers

Again the piano at the beginning is a nice sound, it is not too heavy but also provides a soft beginning to introduce the following instruments such as the flute and drums. The addition of the guitar at 3:05 min is somewhat out of the blue. With the mix of guitar and the trumpet, it adds a mariachi section. At 3:30 min the addition of new instruments and instruments played in the other tracks becomes messy and not easy to listen to because of the jumble all the way to 4:30. min Getting closer to the end of the track the uncommunicative connection between the horns gives off a messy feel which eventually resolves itself getting into a little after the six-minute mark.

Mode D – Trio and Group Dancers/Mode E – Single Solos and Group Dance/Mode F – Group and Solo Dance

Starting off with the horns there was already a busy feel. When there were less horns the clearer it became with a more enjoyable sound. The beginning guitar sounded oddly placed after the rise with the combining horns. The sound that the guitar gives strides away from jazz and adds mariachi, the placement is not right for this song and makes it distracting making it harder to listen to. As the guitar slowly dissolves the sound of the horns and drums bring it back to its original state of jazz. The more the songs progressed the busier and jumbled all the instruments sound at 4:14 the collection of notes played by the different instruments is very distracting. Adding back the piano and flute, the sound becomes light again then mingus turns the piano around into a heavy cord playing with dynamics, it is not until the other instruments are added back does it become lighter. The guitar that Mingus adds though the 18 minute songs takes away from the whole jazz theme and sound intrusive. All the different sounds, instruments, tempos that he adds into the track make it disrtacting and takes away the consistency witch in some way is seen as genius but it makes it hard to understand. With the tracks being so long there is a lot of room for confusion but also improvement, if there is some part that is not as enjoyable as the other it is not the whole song and later in the 18 minutes it is highly likely that there is a part more enjoyable to the ear. There are a lot of places in all the songs that do not flow like staryotipcal jazz, which is really what sets this album apart from most because of the different instrument placement is is almost what makes this album so intriguing to most musicians.

As a person who does not typically enjoy jazz music this album was really hard to listen to. The reason it is challenging to me is because I dont know what is happening from a technical or musical standpoint so I can’t listen as hear if something is genius witch a more trained listener would hear. With my musical experience most of his tracks were messy to my ears, yes as I listened to it more I got used to it in a way.

Lily Brooks:

I drew four drawings for each of the songs, and I drew them while listening to the song and just did whatever as I was listening, sometimes with my eyes closed. The album is an abstract piece of art, so I wanted to do abstract pieces. It was interesting when listening to the album over again to look at my drawings and follow along. They are not good by any means, but it kind of showed what I saw when listening to the songs.

Conor McGeady:

This is a project I spent a good amount of time on. I knew I wanted to sample a piano from the Mingus album, I just didn’t know from which
song or which part. I was listening to “Duet Solo Dancers,”and the opening piano was so beautiful, I knew I wanted to sample it. I added
some lo-fi drums, an acoustic bass and a counter melody.